I’m a 12th House girl. Not an 8th House girl so I speak from experience and observation.
And I’m starting to feel like George Carlin and his football vs baseball routine:
Said in macho voice: In football you wear a helmet.
Said in sweet voice: In baseball you wear a cap!
Here’s a thought: 12th House people tend to be self-destructive whether they realize it or not. 8th House people tend to destroy others. Whether they realize it or not.
Do you think it’s true? Is it bad wisdom? Share your thoughts! I promise I won’t argue even if you want me to 😉
Perhaps it’s that 8th House people have people, energy, coming at them, wanting to hurt them in one way or another, since childhood. Could be parents, could be strangers… Whatever it is, it’s sharp. It hurts. The 8th Is Scorpio’s natural house. Scorpio rules death! And sex. And sex and death together. The 8th House rules sexual abuse. Sexual abuse IS a death.
For the 8th House, the energy between you and others is immense, intense, possibly dangerous. Probably dangerous.
And the 12th House? Ruled by Neptune, awww cosmic consciousness and the sugary side of mysticism. More Christmas than Easter.
8th House? Definitely Easter. Wounds on the wrists. Bleeding. Bleeding. Bleeding.
12th house: more confusion than anything. As my teacher used to say: confusion, illusion, delusion. It’s a soft insidious escapist fantasist energy. Where the 12th House folds up and curls up, the 8th House fights and fights back.
So a person trapped in the prison of the 12th House… well one astrologer, years ago, talked to me about my needing to redeem my Venus from there. To get her out.
And yet I don’t think we EVER talk about needing to redeem planets from the 8th. That the 8th is gross and gunky but sexy too. And then there’s that rebirth, reincarnation, transformation thing.
Is the 12th House sexy? To a mystic maybe. Yeah I remember watching the Thorn Birds when I was 14 and I was ALL OVER T HAT. Sexy priest thing.
But still. The 12th House is the fantasy of the handsome sexy priest and the 8th House is the sex-addicted priest who turns criminal.
The energies feel different don’t you think? I think so. The way Pisces and Scorpio feel WAY different. Pisces merges. Scorpio manipulates.
And neither of these are bad words necessarily. I dislike being manipulated though. It feels creepy to me because I can feeeeeel it but I can’t figure out what’s going on until I figure out what’s going on.
Another story: I worked for an 8th House Moon guy once upon a time. Moon in Scorpio too. And one morning he called me up bitching bitching bitching bitching bitching me out. Eh, more like reaming. It was relentless, calls, texts. Must have gone on for an hour at least. Early in the morning. And he threatened that he would fire me, accused me of doing a bad job. Left so many voicemails. It was at that moment that I decided to leave this job even though I worked for him a little while longer.
And I described this scenario, which felt horrible to me, to my roommate. And she said to me, “I think he likes you.” And her reaction shocked me. I mean, if he likes me, why would he do THAT? I didn’t quite get it.
Point is: he WAS engaging with me. It was twisted, it was dark, but it was INTIMATE. It was really intimate. The stuff he was accusing me of. It was gross. It was 8th House gross. He was real specific, real shaming too as though his intent were to shame.
There’s more to the story AND to his chart (including a 12th House Venus and a drinking problem) but I’ll stop here and turn it over to you guys 🙂
xo
Yes, I am doing Mini-Moon Readings for the Full Moon in Virgo (and it won’t hurt a bit!)
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37 thoughts on “The 12th House vs. The 8th House”
hey. I stumbled upon this article while trying to find something on 8th and 12th house, after realizing my ex and I had a 12(mine)-8(his) house sag synastry. we have saturn and uranus overlaping there (same generation). In addition, I have Venus in 12th house almost exactlly on his Juno-Saturn conjunction in 8th (orb1). I don’t really know about the 8th house(mine is Leo,but empty), but I have had a lot of comments from people who know me well (familly memebers) about being selfdestructive (12th house). The real paradox of the house and planets in there, I believe, is that I don’t realize it at all. I sure am interested in Venus positioned there as I would like to find out more about that need to redeem it and how to do it. Could anyone try to write more about their experiences of Venus in 12th perhaps? When it comes to my experience with my ex it felt like we were connected on a soul level. But it ended badly with him shuting me out of his life never to talk to me again. And one more thing that you mentioned about Venus’ need for someone who isn’t there? could you please explaint it a bit more?
I’m sorry burka – I don’t have much time to explain at the moment but I do readings. Please feel free to check out my Services page. THANK YOU for reading and finding me xoxo
I was married to a virgo who had a scorpion child. i felt myself wanting to hurt him and beat him. i felt ashamed to a point where i had to actually leave the relationship because of it. i had an intense urge to hurt this child and i didnt know why. i didnt hurt him though because i strongly believe in Karma. i am a sagittarius born 12/1/66 and my ex was born on 9/9/70 and his child was born on 11/9/2008.
how do you redeem the moon in the 12 house? I was reading your posts about your own placement of venus in the 12th house, but not sure what redeeming of a planet actually means?
By making the unknown known to you. Making the unconscious conscious. How you restrict yourself, create your own prison.
I am interested in how to balance or solve the entire problem of my moon in aries in the 12th house of piscies and all that opposing to a strong stellium in Libra ( Venus, mercury, mars and pluto in libra opposing my poor moon 🙁 I feel like I attract humans who expect me to sacrifice my free time and my own freedom for them, yet they would never reciprocate it themselves. THen my moon reacts so intensely that the entire blame is put on me…and it makes me outrages, used, manipulated …….the same with people who I considered friends, yet, they turned out to be secretly manipulative and not as loving as I thought they would be. I am confused and afraid …not sure how to process those things.
Thanks for writing, Ruby Roo! It’s true — the 12th can be a lonely place.
I love your comment ! And the 12th House? Ruled by Neptune, awww cosmic consciousness and the sugary side of mysticism. More Christmas
LoL there is truth in this statement. I have sun and mercury in 12th with pisces on 12th house cusp.
I think its christmasy ( i probably spelt this wrong ) because the 12th house is whether many people realize or not the 12th house can be Colorful, magical and kinda a feeling of euphoria and giving , pretty much like the christmas season.
Thank you, nick!
I only have Pluto in the 12th but the part about feeling manipulated but not being able to put a finger on it really resonates with me! I feel like it makes me look crazy if I point it out and call people out on this manipulation.
But just as often I feel guilty yet clever for letting people get away with attempting to manipulate me because I can see that the end result is in my favor. I almost feel sorry for them for not seeing this coming! I can’t help smiling wide and laughing as I type this^
Thanks for your thoughts, 12thPluto! 🙂
I have an overly packed 8th house, Virgo. I understand your comparison but with heavy 8th house energy, that can be turned towards healing and enlightening. My best friend is heavy mercurial energy in the 12th house. She will say to me, “You dig it up to feel better, I bury it to feel better”.
Great write up though…
Hi Dreams and thanks for your comment. Please know, none of my blog posts is meant to be comprehensive at all. I’d be foolish to try. They are usually written on the spur of the moment, inspired by something in my life, and thus captures that moment in time (plus my astrology knowledge and point of view in that moment). So sure, the 8th House and the 12th House mean many many many things. High sides and low sides of both. Love what you say about digging it up to feel better. Yup!
Thank you!
Very interesting post! I have a pisces stellium in the 8th including my moon. I came here to have an inside on how to use this 8th house energy (in a positive way!). I’m not sure how it works, it gets mixed up because of this pisces thing!…
Thank you 🙂
I’m strongly influenced by both my 8th and 12th houses and consider myself to be both a Neptunian and a Plutonian. I guess the best way to sum it up would be that my 12th won’t allow my 8th to act on its lower impulses, which is tough because I always know what’s going on beneath the surface (i.e., the subtle & not subtle power manipulations) and want to take immediate action to right the wrong (8th house Aries placements – with Mars, ruler of my 8th, square Pluto in the 12th).
So the trick for me is learning how to handle the energies in a way that allows me to mindfully pay attention without letting my anger rule – even if the cause is worthy. Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Buddhist monk, teacher and peace activist, suggests we not deny our anger, but instead allow it to transform (and in the case of the 8th house, “inform”) our compassion and understanding.
I realize anger is more commonly associated with Mars, but for me, my anger is always provoked by the unjust use of power – other than that, I have no desire to manipulate or abuse anyone, although I would like to heal what ails them (hahaha!)
Thanks for your thoughts LB. I love him, btw, he’s awesome!!!!!
I have an 8th house Neptune, which rules my empty 12th. Neptune makes lots of aspects to the other planets. (Jupiter rules my 8th house cusp and only opposes my Ascendant.) I also have a 1st house Moon, which is the apex of a yod with that 8th house Neptune, and Pluto!
So, I definitely have a tendency to be able to destroy others, myself, and to attract destructive people. It is very, very messy. But I think you have the 8th and 12th down pat. 🙂
Thanks, Lindsey!
I’m a Pisces (12th) with an 8th house moon, chiron, and BML.
My boyfriend is a Scorpio (8th) with a 12th house moon… hmm.
On rare occasions, if provoked, I will yell and be mean. But it’s rare. More typical for me is to just shut you out if I feel bad energy from you. I think I have been shielding for a long, long time and just didn’t know it.
I think a part of this is my Libra rising and Pisces sun, I am a bit of a pacifist and in general just want everyone to be happy. Also I am very mercurian/neptunian AND my mercury is like double afflicted (Pisces AND retrograde). Therefore I am very in my head about everything, and sometimes it is hard for me to see what’s really there, people’s intentions, etc. Like I have not become friends w/people who wanted to be my friend because I thought there was no way they would actually want to hang out with me because I was so boring and unpopular (so I thought), but looking back now I’m like, wow! You were an ASSHOLE to those people! What was wrong with me? Luckily I do have that perspective now, though, and it’s helping me now. Able to step back and see the big picture.Just wish I could have done so earlier in life. I did go through a really weird time in my late teens/very early 20s with stuff like that, I wonder what the astrology was at that time…
Good morning, Aliza! Loved this post, altho I think I’ve got the confused part down well. lol
12th house person here, too. Nothing in the 8th in my natal chart.
BUT – my 12th house Venus, Neptune and NN?
All in Scorpio. (Along with my rising sign.)
The 8th house description definitely describes my life. It’s not been sugary. At all.
Hmmm.
thanks Kim. I knew I would aggravate some people by posting it but it makes no sense to me to divorce the 8th house from its keywords. I didn’t make this shit up. There’s a history to it. Your case is esp interesting though – 12th/8th combo. Hope u r well my dear
Frustrated, angry, mad as hell and not taking it anymore.
But I’m upright, sweetie. Thanks!
(Seems to me maybe all that is a GOOD thing.)
LOL!
Sending you good vibrations, Miss Kim
I agree about the difference between 12th and 8th – sadly, I am a 12th houser and I am extremely self-destructive. I wonder what the hell is the cure? Turning into Buddha? But then what is the purpose of bringing so much spirituality on earth? Shouldn’t earthy life be lived in earthy things? Should people with Venus in 12th house become nuns/ monks and just renounce all hope for human love? – if they do, it should be oficial so that no one build any false hope.
As far as for the 8th housers, this is not the first time I hear a story such as yours. I have two more examples but they didn’t happen to me. I have to say I am little envious – these 8th housers never seem to go off on me like this, although I wish they did – the things I would say and do to them…all nice things, of course!
Was the roommate you mentioned the super Taurus? Because that would be suitable, I noticed Taurus sees through Scorpio and takes quite a delight in it.
Yes it was her. She was probably jealous. I was horrified and she was… thinking it was no big deal I think.
1/ I love that picture. it’s from a US series abt AIDS, stellar cast, name escapes me
2/ Empty 8th house in Gemini, there maybe asteroids but cannot remember.
Definitely leave others alone although have plenty of ammunition to destroy them if felt like it. Perhaps that’s why I do not: I would decimate them.
Deep down I also feel a bit God like: I CHOSE not to destroy you, mere mortal… 😉
3/ How does one redeem 12th house Venus?
It’s from the movie version (HBO) of a broadway show – Angels in America. My favorite play. Tony Kushner wrote it. I think that’s my entire point actually. The 8th House/Scorpio having the impulse to destroy whether they do it or not. 12th House/pisces will instead turn their head
“turn their head” meaning they put it in the sand = escape. In and of itself the placement, IMHO doesn’t hold the seeds of retribution or violent imagery. It’s about SWIMMING whereas the 8th is about…. drowning (so to speak)
I need to blog about that again — the redemption from the 12th. It’s on my list! But the short answer is, as you know, being aware of the patterns and breaking them.
Venus gets out of the 12th when she stops longing for someone/something who isn’t THERE.
Of, course, MoonPluto!
You’ve written about this in my readings and on your blog.
(Thank you for your comprehensive answer in the last post)
Chose and obsess about the available with the real potential and chuck the frogs and dead fish back into the pond.
I think Venus 12th needs to repeat this mantra as often as practical.
She will get it eventually…. as I have been.
In the past, I would have kept my feelings to myself, unless forced into an argument. I can’t seem to do that anymore. I really miss my more easygoing, private self.
I don’t destroy others. I just want them to leave me alone, if they can’t be kind. The last thing I need is someone deliberately helping me to destroy myself, and thinking nasty things about me – let alone spreading them around.
My depression is back in full force. People tend to destroy me, but I’m more in the process of being destroyed from the inside out, now that other people have helped me to get to a certain point – the taurus having been a big help with that.
I don’t think of myself as an 8th house person because I have the chart of a 7th house type but although I have no planets or angles in Scorpio, Pluto aspects my ascendant/descendant axis, sun, Venus, mercury, Saturn, neptune…I’ve got an eighth house mars in fixed fire & my moon is a degree out of my 8th. I was abused as a child, not sexually, but violently. Physically and verbally…”wounds..bleeding, bleeding, bleeding”. I’m not sure how much is astrology and how much is life but my attitude is that I’m pretty much bullet proof now. There’s nothing anyone can do to me that’s worse than what I’ve already survived but fearless isn’t the same as courage. The energy between me & others is very intense if I suspect for a second that I’m being manipulated. It can be dangerous and I’ve inflicted damage, I’m good at it because of all the things that bring people to me: an ability to understand, a desire to nurture, heal and protect. I genuinely want to help, I like being useful. But I don’t let anyone fuck with me. It sets a bad precedent. I was attacked in a parking garage once. I’m small & the guy was at least 3 times my size but I broke both of his legs & didn’t even think to scream for help, I don’t remember thinking anything. “8th house tend to destroy others”- I agree but, in my case, it’s a survival mechanism. Without this strange and ugly gift, I would not have survived my childhood. But I did survive and I’m always working at evolving. I’m a cancer sun, heading toward a 12th house north node & if I get there, I’ll have the Scorpio inside me to thank. There’s light & dark in all of us, I’m constantly redirecting myself toward the light but I’m not afraid of the dark because, for me, there is literally nothing without it. All of this strikes me as 8th house. I think the trouble comes with not understanding that this energy is powerful, base, hard to control and shouldn’t be directed at yourself or innocent employees. 😉 We all have Scorpio/Pluto/8th house and Pisces/Neptune/12th house but we can choose not to be assholes & we can try to enlighten ourselves. We can do what my favorite astrologer suggests and work with the energy instead of getting worked by it (which will happen from time to time). Sherpa xo
Interesting way you’ve put things here… now.. I have an 8th H Cap Moon, hanging with BML and Athena (as you may remember) and a 12th H Taurus Mars. As these things go, perhaps I’m not the best, most objective judge of how I am, but I don’t see myself being anything like that dude you worked with! LOL Ok… now…. back in the younger days, I was obsessed (read, terrified) of death, and had a strong fascination with sex. But… everything is very internal… I have no desire to manipulate or control people… but I also know I don’t want to be controlled! Fark that. lol
As for my 12th H Mars… well, I’ve always had a yen for the mystical things of the Universe.
And my Moon and Mars are trine, so they happily coexsist as happily as such things CAN coexist? lol
Hmmm… Idk… I’m not sure my train of thought here is going anywhere in particular… forgive me.
I suppose basically, I can SEE what you’re saying, I could see how it would apply… but, feels really foreign to me and my experience. *shrugs*
thanks beth. i know i take a dark approach here — i’ve definitely come across these types which i’ve come to associate with.. ya know… which is why i’m opening it up to others’ thoughts 🙂
Hey, it’s cool… I can always blame it on my ridonkulous amount of Saturny goodness that keeps my s*%t under control LOL 😛